community paid hosting

Re: community paid hosting

Postby micseydel » Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:50 am

He isn't a BDFL, he isn't even an active member and hasn't logged in for over a month. If we build a superior product, then the next time the forum goes down and he isn't around to help I suspect the community will migrate rather than stagnate. In what I consider to be the worst case, the mere threat of this would keep jkkbwr on his toes; in the best case we get a better product. The potential benefits are very large though, with us having full control over the software and being able to have all the old content back, as well as better spam protection, a more clear way of telling new users to use code tags, etc. Keeping with PHPbb there's no good way to move forward and retain the old benefits or get any new.

On a slightly more pessimistic note, I'm speculatively afraid jkkbwr doesn't actually own the domain and we're still under the control of the old owner. This is because of what shows up in the whois for this site. Further fear comes with the fact that we were supposed to display a thank you banner or whatever, and that never happened. It looks like this domain expires again in April as well. The whois says that it doesn't assure accuracy so none of that is dooming but it's all concerning to me.

If people are concerned about wasting their time, I can appreciate that, but in theory I for one still want to create something better, assuming I get around to blocking off some time for it.
Join the #python-forum IRC channel on irc.freenode.net!

Please do not PM members regarding questions which are meant to be discussed publicly. The point of the forum is so that others can benefit from it. We don't want to help you over PMs or emails.
User avatar
micseydel
 
Posts: 1443
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:18 am
Location: Mountain View, CA

Re: community paid hosting

Postby metulburr » Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:01 pm

So why dont we just buy a domain name, host it somewhere for the time being, Then once its a fully-working or even somewhat working forum, we can pay for hosting. If jkbbwr turns the situation around then we can input the new forum here with the merged databases, otherwise just put it up in under our new domain. Although i don't see that happening. Based on the past year+, i think we are going to have to migrate.

I would help with the new forum as much as i could.

b) I am interested in working on merging the old and the new forums; the major reason for that I think is the old forum contained a lot of useful content and, if indexed by Google, should dramatically increase the number of queries that have relevant pages here and so increase the traffic to this forum, to everybody's benefits.
In order to start, I'd like to get a raw dump of the old DB. (We've been discussing this with micseydel for a while).

The question is: does the community approve / disapprove?

i am for it

Code: Select all
metulburr@arch ~ $ whois python-forum.org
Access to .ORG WHOIS information is provided to assist persons in
determining the contents of a domain name registration record in the
Public Interest Registry registry database. The data in this record is provided by
Public Interest Registry for informational purposes only, and Public Interest Registry does not
guarantee its accuracy.  This service is intended only for query-based
access. You agree that you will use this data only for lawful purposes
and that, under no circumstances will you use this data to: (a) allow,
enable, or otherwise support the transmission by e-mail, telephone, or
facsimile of mass unsolicited, commercial advertising or solicitations
to entities other than the data recipient's own existing customers; or
(b) enable high volume, automated, electronic processes that send
queries or data to the systems of Registry Operator, a Registrar, or
Afilias except as reasonably necessary to register domain names or
modify existing registrations. All rights reserved. Public Interest Registry reserves
the right to modify these terms at any time. By submitting this query,
you agree to abide by this policy.

Domain ID:D96709593-LROR
Domain Name:PYTHON-FORUM.ORG
Created On:08-Apr-2003 12:33:33 UTC
Last Updated On:13-Apr-2013 19:34:03 UTC
Expiration Date:08-Apr-2014 12:33:33 UTC
Sponsoring Registrar:OnlineNIC Inc. (R64-LROR)
Status:CLIENT TRANSFER PROHIBITED
Registrant ID:ONLC-657672-4
Registrant Name:Graziano  M
Registrant Organization:python forum
Registrant Street1:Via monte amiata
Registrant Street2:Via monte amiata
Registrant Street3:
Registrant City:Rome
Registrant State/Province:RM
Registrant Postal Code:00139
Registrant Country:IT
Registrant Phone:+39.0681099340
Registrant Phone Ext.:
Registrant FAX:+39.0681099340
Registrant FAX Ext.:
Registrant Email:gmeneguzzo@gmail.com
Admin ID:ONLC-657672-1
Admin Name:Graziano  M
Admin Organization:python forum
Admin Street1:Via monte amiata
Admin Street2:Via monte amiata
Admin Street3:
Admin City:Rome
Admin State/Province:RM
Admin Postal Code:00139
Admin Country:IT
Admin Phone:+39.0681099340
Admin Phone Ext.:
Admin FAX:+39.0681099340
Admin FAX Ext.:
Admin Email:gmeneguzzo@gmail.com
Tech ID:ONLC-657672-2
Tech Name:Graziano  M
Tech Organization:python forum
Tech Street1:Via monte amiata
Tech Street2:Via monte amiata
Tech Street3:
Tech City:Rome
Tech State/Province:RM
Tech Postal Code:00139
Tech Country:IT
Tech Phone:+39.0681099340
Tech Phone Ext.:
Tech FAX:+39.0681099340
Tech FAX Ext.:
Tech Email:gmeneguzzo@gmail.com
Name Server:DNS2.POINTHQ.COM
Name Server:DNS1.POINTHQ.COM
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
DNSSEC:Unsigned


metulburr@arch ~ $
New Users, Read This
OS Ubuntu 14.04, Arch Linux, Gentoo, Windows 7/8
https://github.com/metulburr
steam
User avatar
metulburr
 
Posts: 1511
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:47 pm
Location: Elmira, NY

Re: community paid hosting

Postby Kebap » Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:06 pm

I would love to see a python-based forum software here this time next year, however I assume you may under-estimate the amounts of work needed to surpass phpBB's functionality. When I look to the bottom of this page below the last post, there are so many different types of info and functionality included, already. A basic forum seems easy, but comparable will take time.

Then again, I am German, I have some privacy concerns. While I would welcome a forum containing both "new" and "old" databases, I am not sure how to proceed doing this. When you hand over db access to anybody, they will not only have access to public postings, but also private messages, mail adresses, etc, right? This needs to be handled with special care.
Learn: How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
Join the #python-forum IRC channel on irc.freenode.net and chat with uns directly!
Kebap
 
Posts: 397
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:17 pm
Location: Germany, Europe

Re: community paid hosting

Postby hrs » Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:13 pm

Has anyone tried asking Graziano for the domain (assuming he is indeed still owner)? If he's a reasonable guy he'll just hand it over as part of the deal. He did get his money right?
hrs
 
Posts: 86
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:26 pm

Re: community paid hosting

Postby micseydel » Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:49 pm

When I write up the V0.1 version, I was planning on putting it on my personal server and informing forum regulars so that interested parties could test it, with no assurances changes to the state of the test forum would ever reach the final one. That's the foreseeable future I think, after that I could see any result from jkbbwr saying the time was wasted and then us hosting it somewhere else, to him promising to use it and maybe doing it after 6 months or so. Getting a new domain is a bit off.

Kebap wrote:I assume you may under-estimate the amounts of work needed to surpass phpBB's functionality.

You're probably right. But if I get a free weekend, I bet I can bang out a good base in a couple days. People get quite a bit done in 24-hour hackathons.

Kebap wrote: I have some privacy concerns. While I would welcome a forum containing both "new" and "old" databases, I am not sure how to proceed doing this. When you hand over db access to anybody, they will not only have access to public postings, but also private messages, mail adresses, etc, right? This needs to be handled with special care.

All that, password hashes, IP addresses and possibly more. I think the old forum used unsalted MD5 hashes too. (Another good reason to have our own forum software; some of phpBB is seriously lacking.) Hence my asking if it would be alright. All the admins and perhaps moderators on this forum have access to that information, and I know that at least metul, myself and jkbbwr have the old dump as well. And I wasn't planning on giving it to anybody, ochi offered to assist and if anyone has concerns about that individual sharing then I'd love to hear those concerns voiced. If someone thinks that they can write an extraction script that wouldn't require giving the forum dump to more people I'd prefer that but seriously doubt it, it seems like something that would require some experimentation.

A new forum containing both forum dumps seems pretty easy to me. There'd be a flow for claiming an old account and its posts, we could easily have all the old URLs for posts from either forum and their bookmarks redirect to the new and proper pages. We could have a video tutorial or something for new users explaining code tags. Lots of options.

hrs wrote:Has anyone tried asking Graziano for the domain (assuming he is indeed still owner)? If he's a reasonable guy he'll just hand it over as part of the deal. He did get his money right?

I'm afraid to do that, since jkbbwr promised to show a thank you banner on the site and hasn't, that Graziano would in some way be unhelpful. As it was he neglected the forum, and only came back to say he was killing it, and which led to us raising a considerable sum of money to save it because we asked if we could buy the domain from him and rather than naming a price we had a bidding war with a guy who wanted the forum data rather than to save the community, explicitly because he wanted to be able to see the email addresses. I'm not sure how legal that nastiness was but it was extraordinarily unpleasant, and if Graziano were really so reasonable I would expect him to set a fair price upfront and not offer to do business with an obvious spammer.
Join the #python-forum IRC channel on irc.freenode.net!

Please do not PM members regarding questions which are meant to be discussed publicly. The point of the forum is so that others can benefit from it. We don't want to help you over PMs or emails.
User avatar
micseydel
 
Posts: 1443
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:18 am
Location: Mountain View, CA

Re: community paid hosting

Postby metulburr » Thu Jan 09, 2014 6:05 pm

I'm afraid to do that, since jkbbwr promised to show a thank you banner on the site and hasn't, that Graziano would in some way be unhelpful. As it was he neglected the forum, and only came back to say he was killing it, and which led to us raising a considerable sum of money to save it because we asked if we could buy the domain from him and rather than naming a price we had a bidding war with a guy who wanted the forum data rather than to save the community, explicitly because he wanted to be able to see the email addresses. I'm not sure how legal that nastiness was but it was extraordinarily unpleasant, and if Graziano were really so reasonable I would expect him to set a fair price upfront and not offer to do business with an obvious spammer.


I forgot the exact situation and what happened in leading me to email him. When the forum was down for a few months or so I think, just after purchasing the domain name. I did ask something similar to Graziano. I apparently deleted the email from him since then. I forgot my exact question, but i remember the response was roughly:
"I am no longer the owner, and not associated with that anymore"

I think that would be his response again, regardless of whats in the whois database
New Users, Read This
OS Ubuntu 14.04, Arch Linux, Gentoo, Windows 7/8
https://github.com/metulburr
steam
User avatar
metulburr
 
Posts: 1511
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:47 pm
Location: Elmira, NY

Re: community paid hosting

Postby micseydel » Thu Jan 09, 2014 6:15 pm

The whois could be incorrect, which would be a relief, but my fear is that Graziano has maintained ownership but DGAF about the forum, basically where we were before the whole fiasco.
Join the #python-forum IRC channel on irc.freenode.net!

Please do not PM members regarding questions which are meant to be discussed publicly. The point of the forum is so that others can benefit from it. We don't want to help you over PMs or emails.
User avatar
micseydel
 
Posts: 1443
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:18 am
Location: Mountain View, CA

Re: community paid hosting

Postby metulburr » Thu Jan 09, 2014 6:19 pm

yeah true, but i figured i would mention what he actually did say though.
New Users, Read This
OS Ubuntu 14.04, Arch Linux, Gentoo, Windows 7/8
https://github.com/metulburr
steam
User avatar
metulburr
 
Posts: 1511
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:47 pm
Location: Elmira, NY

Re: community paid hosting

Postby micseydel » Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:05 pm

ochi is asking for the forum dumps and I have them, and would like to give them to him. I'm going to do so in ~48 hours if no one raises an objection. Feel free to anonymously PM me, I'll put your concerns here and we can continue the conversation. But I'd like to move forward. ochi has been with the forum for a long time, and makes contributing posts so I personally really respect his desire to help.
Join the #python-forum IRC channel on irc.freenode.net!

Please do not PM members regarding questions which are meant to be discussed publicly. The point of the forum is so that others can benefit from it. We don't want to help you over PMs or emails.
User avatar
micseydel
 
Posts: 1443
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:18 am
Location: Mountain View, CA

Re: community paid hosting

Postby ochichinyezaboombwa » Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:34 am

Let me reiterate: my goal is to join old and current contents of our forum; I believe this would be extremely beneficial to the forum and all its members. This is important to me personally because I believe this forum is a good and important place on the web for Python programmers.

What I am trying to do is to join two forums in such a manner that there are no ID clashes (forum IDs, thread IDs, author IDs...); this might be tricky and take some time and effort. I have some experience with re-engineering SQL schemas and a certain amount of belief I might succeed; but there is no guarantee. If I don't succeed, I will wipe everything out, end of story.

As for the concern regarding privacy (aka access to emails and unsalted hashes), and more generally – about trusting me with the data:
the concern is *generally speaking* valid, but hey, look, I am on this forum for more than 5 years, and I am here for different reasons than looking at some unsalted MD5s.......... The proof lies in the old database:-)
ochichinyezaboombwa
 
Posts: 200
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:53 pm

Re: community paid hosting

Postby jkbbwr » Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:06 am

A) I do own the domain, I haven't updated the whois as the actual domain registrars website is a horrible place that is impossible to use let alone release.
B) Hosting should be and is more stable now and hasn't been down in quite a while.
C) Hosting for the new Python version has been paid for in advance in full and is ready for moving onto when the boards are stable for public release.
D) I am not active because (as has happened with a few other members) real life has gotten in the way.
E) You won't have to donate money I am fronting any and all costs out of my own pocket after the initial donation was used.
F) Development of a full Python version of the forum is still underway and we have a professional web developer providing HTML+CSS for the design. The public beta is still a long time away, but when its done it will have a public and private api, plus plugins written by members of the forum.
jkbbwr
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:25 am

Previous

Return to Suggestions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest